Until now, I have covered only two of the ballot questions that will be on the Oklahoma state ballot on November 2, SQ 744 and SQ 746. You can read my take on those questions at the links above. As the mid-term elections draw ever closer, I thought it would be a good time to discuss another question that will be on the ballot, namely State Question 755. There is a lot of controversy surrounding this question, as it has to do with Sharia law. In case you are not aware, Sharia law is the sacred law of Islam and most people who follow it seem to follow a rather strict interpretation of the law. I will get to the strict interpretations in a moment, but let’s first look at what SQ 755 will do, if it passed by Oklahoma voters.
RESOLUTION OR BILL NUMBER:
HJR1056
CITATION:
Amends Const. Article 7, Section 1
SUBJECT:
Courts to rely on federal and state laws when deciding cases forbidding courts from looking at international law or Sharia Law.
BALLOT TITLE:
This measure amends the State Constitution. It changes a section that deals with the courts of this state. It would amend Article 7, Section 1. It makes courts rely on federal and state law when deciding cases. It forbids courts from considering or using international law. It forbids courts from considering or using Sharia Law.International law is also known as the law of nations. It deals with the conduct of international organizations and independent nations, such as countries, states and tribes. It deals with their relationship with each other. It also deals with some of their relationships with persons.
The law of nations is formed by the general assent of civilized nations. Sources of international law also include international agreements, as well as treaties.
Sharia Law is Islamic law. It is based on two principal sources, the Koran and the teaching of Mohammed.
SHALL THE PROPOSAL BE APPROVED?
FOR THE PROPOSAL
Yes: __________
AGAINST THE PROPOSAL
No: __________
DISPOSITION:
Pending approval or rejection on General Election November 2, 2010
Now, let’s get right to what the opponents of SQ 755 are using as ammunition against the measure. They say it is a completely unnecessary measure, in that no one is considering using Sharia law as the basis for their ruling in a particular case. The Council on American-Islamic Relations is up in the air about the measure, saying they are offended that their religion is being singled out by State Representative Rex Duncan. Opponents also say that the Oklahoma court system is already bound to follow the laws of Oklahoma and of the United States and that Sharia law mirrors the U.S. Constitution. I beg to differ.
In support of the measure, I will cite a case that has already been used many times by advocates of SQ 755, the case of a rape incident in New Jersey. I apologize for the somewhat graphic nature of what I am about to say. In this case, a Muslim man of Moroccan origin was accused of forcing his wife to have sexual intercourse with him, against her will. The woman finally divorced him and went to court to get a restraining order against him. Here is what Judge Joseph Charles wrote in his decision to deny the restraining order.
The court believes that he was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited. After acknowledging that this was a case in which religious custom clashed with the law, and that under the law, plaintiff had a right to refuse defendant’s advances, the judge found that defendant did not act with a criminal intent when he repeatedly insisted upon intercourse, despite plaintiff’s contrary wishes.
If I am understanding this decision correctly, Judge Charles is saying it’s okay to assault your wife, forcing yourself on her, as long as your religion says it is okay. As a man who loves his wife dearly, I can tell you I would not do that to her, no matter what my religion told me to do. Any man who does do that isn’t much of a man, in my opinion. Besides that, the last time I checked, it was against the laws of the United States to do that, even if you are married to the woman in question.
It should be noted that the New Jersey ruling was quickly overturned by the appellate court, saying:
As the judge recognized, the case thus presents a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts. In resolving this conflict, the judge determined to except defendant from the operation of the State’s statutes as the result of his religious beliefs. In doing so, the judge was mistaken.
I applaud the decision to overturn the original ruling, but I do feel SQ 755 has merit. You may not think Sharia law is a threat to America, but I ask you to consider what is currently happening in Great Britain. I intend to vote yes on the measure, but I would love to hear your thoughts on the issue. If you live in Oklahoma or not, let me know your take on SQ 755 and Sharia law.
It’s already happening in Dearborn Michigan. I’m not surprised that the ACORN of Islam, CAIR leads the opposition. Sharia law is indefensible though, and I think Oklahomans will demonstrate that to CAIR.
Yeah, I fully expect 755 to pass, if for no other reason than to draw a line in the sand.
I am shocked that US courts would even be allowed to consider Sharia Law. The English authorities have allowed this and it has led to disaster – particularly for women and children.
Yeah, you would think the examples we have to judge would be enough to convince us Sharia law is not a good thing. Some people can be so stubborn, though.
I’m with Harrison, courts shouldn’t be looking at any laws that are foreign laws. We have seen this on the state leve and on the national level as well.
I am all for the freedom of religion, but when that religion allows you to abuse another person something has to be done about it.This abuse is agains the law in the U.S., the crime happened in the U.S., and the case is being held in the U.S., Sharia Law should not be coonsidered.
I would vote in favor of any question that prohibited foreign law from being used to decide any case in the United States!
Amen, Steve. I couldn’t believe what I was reading when I found out about the New Jersey case. That a judge would even consider a religious law that allows the beating of one’s wife is beyond the pale.
Good post LD, thank you for bringing this to my attention. We don’t get much Oklahoma news here in Virginia.
I love the argument against the bill, it is unnecessary because Sharia law mirrors the Constitution. What world is that guy living in? For sake of argument, lets assume he is correct. Since when is a politician opposed to a law that serves no purpose? If that was the case, we could remove 90% of the laws on the books. And if it is a purposeless law in that Oklahoma already has to follow US and State laws above all else, then what is the harm if re-asserting that?
God bless Oklahoma, I hope this passes.
CAIR is up in the air about it, which is to be fully expected. You can’t breathe a word against Islam without that happening. I hope we pass it also, Colin.
I find the Proposition unnecessary and redundant to current law. The judge was completely wrong and quickly reversed and I’m not familiar with other instances of this occurring. But having said that, since the law has no teeth and is essentially harmless, if it makes Oklahomans sleep better at night then have at it.
This is how you change your Constitution? By Ballot? Can it be appealed to the Fed Supremo’s? There are two on the bench who believe that “International law” can be considered. Good Luck with this one.
Thanks for your comment, Bunkerville. Yes, this is one way the citizens of Oklahoma have changing our state Constitution. Concerning a possible appeal to the Supreme Court, I don’t know what basis it would be on. I fail to see where there would be such a basis.
It’s quite simple to see where the appeal would come from. It violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.
You will have to explain yourself, j. cole. I fail to see how SQ 755 violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. It has nothing to do with the religion of Islam itself, but targets it’s Sharia Law, which violates the laws of America.
It’s the fact that it’s making a law concerning religion at all.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”
Even if you were to read that extremely narrowly (which the Supreme Court has not), you’re still interfering with the free exercise of religion by singling one out and stating, “You can’t practice completely.” It’s one thing to regulate so that they don’t interfere with the natural and civil rights of another individual, it’s another to remove something that doesn’t exist from the law of the courts of the state.
Perhaps I should come at this another way. The worry is that in England there are courts that uphold and rule on Sharia law. Even if courts like that were to come to the United States, they would not usurp the power of the state and federal courts; rather they would stand beside them without any power or jurisdiction except over the people who submit to them. (Keep in mind that there are Jewish courts around the country that do the exact same thing.)
Excellent points have been made, however, that courts in Oklahoma, under this law, cannot look to the Bible anymore either. I happen to like that particular outcome — it’s about time that this nation move away from reliance on religion in any way.
Again, this has nothing to do with the religion of Islam itself. Am I to understand that you are okay with Muslims coming into our country and abiding by a law that allows a man to beat his wife? Because that is exactly what a portion of Sharia Law does. If so, I completely disagree with you and the law they want to abide by.
This does have to do with the religion of Islam, because Sharia Law comes directly out of the religion; IT IS A RELIGIOUS LAW.
They can abide by their law all they want, but they will still be subject to state and federal laws. The case you quoted above was overturned, so it’s not like there is precedent for allowing them to use Sharia law as an excuse for undertaking illegal acts.
Yes, it was overturned. What about the next time an activist judge decides it is proper to consider Sharia Law and allow something, even though it goes against the Constitution or our laws in America? Just because Sharia Law comes from a religion doesn’t make it right. The only way it would be restricted is in the cases of where it goes against American law.
Let me put it this way. I believe homosexuality is as wrong as wrong can be. I believe it is a sin against God and the very nature of man and how he was created. I would never do this, but just suppose I decided it was okay for me to kill homosexuals because they were sinning? How far do you think that line of defense would take me in a court of law? I would be quickly convicted and rightfully so. Why should Islam and it’s Sharia Law be treated any differently?
Next time the same thing will happen: it will be overturned. We live in a Common Law system where precedence rules — ANY ruling against the law or Constitution will get overturned. I never said that Sharia Law is right, but the First Amendment was written to ensure that no religion was legislated against. Also, “The only way it would be restricted is in the cases of where it goes against American law.” What does that even mean? Are you suggesting that re make anything allowed by Sharia Law illegal, even if it is not currently against US law?
To the second half of your post, you’re trying to put words in my mouth. I never said that anything which was against US law but acceptable by Sharia should be allowed. Rather, I’m saying that to legislate against any religion is against the principles of “separation of church and state” which are enshrined in the First Amendment and have been honed and clarified over 221 years of judicial process.
I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, just pointing out a hypothetical situation.
There is no guarantee that the same thing will be overturned, if it happens again. Just look at the example of Great Britain. Little by little, Sharia courts have moved into a position of having more and more control in that country. I am sure the citizens there would tell you they didn’t think it could happen, but it did. I do not wish to see it happen in America.
Going back to your point that SQ 755 violates the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment, I again disagree. The measure does not restrict the ability of Muslims to practice their religion, as long as they do not violate American law. I do not see how you can argue that it does.
I’d support it on the basis of it being a clarification of our inalienable rights. Sharia does indeed violate Natural Law and certain inalienable rights. And Lord knows we need all the extra legal protection of those rights we can get! Even from our own government, let alone alien law.
Thanks for commenting, CL. I completely agree, Sharia law does violate natural law and some of our inalienable rights.
Whoa! Wait a minute! Does not the mythical separation of “Church and State” rule out ANY consideration of religion in legal/political matters? Or does that only apply to Christianity?
For some reason, Islam seems to get a pass on a lot of things like this. That is one reason I think this law is a good thing. It draws a line in the sand and says enough is enough.
I believe this will pass with out any problem. What I think should be looked at is why we would even have to have a law like this. I think that, in and of itself, is very telling. CAIR can get into an uproar all they want, but anyone who comes to this country falls under her laws…period. For some odd reason, some Muslims don’t get that.
This will violate the most basic rights of private parties to freely contract among themselves.
You can forget about choice-of-law clauses in contracts that call for disputes arising from the contract to be resolved under foreign law. This will effectively make it illegal for companies in Oklahoma to do any foreign business.
It invites economic disaster.
I disagree, JDU. I have seen no evidence of pending economic disaster, if 755 passes. All it will do is ban the consideration of foreign law in our legal system and of course, ban Sharia law. How will that make it illegal for Oklahoma companies to do business with foreign businesses?
FYI–SQ 755 just passed
I thought it would.
Let’s not be naive here. Look at the motives behind the law. it was simply to drive people to the poles through fear mongering and to create division between Us citizens based on their religion. Q755 wanted to get an unwarranted negative reaction out of the Muslim community just like when they tried to ban the head scarf for Muslim women in the name of freedom, but nuns can still wear them. Sharia law is not a threat to America because you cannot show me any evidence of any Islamic group pushing for it. The defense used in a single case by some random guy in New Jersey was bogus as rape is not allowed in Sharia law either. There have been other defenses used to justify crimes such as sleep walking or eye for an eye….do we need to amend the constitution to throw them out as well. we have laws that we abide by and there is no need to single out a religion and publicly condemn it. Q755 is unconstitutional because it violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.
My last argument on this matter is that Q755 will cause government entanglement because in order not consider something you have to know enough about it. Sharia law is widely based on cultures and differ from country to country. do we want our judges reattaching what the law is in every country in order to dismiss it.
BTW, state Q755 would also throw out the ten commandments and some Indian tribes laws because they are considered international law.
I hardly think I am being naive, Joe. Those of you who oppose SQ 755 are reading much more into the amendment than is there. The intent that you state is simply not true. You are correct, in that Sharia Law isn’t a real problem in America. YET! That’s how it started in Great Britain and one only has to look at what is happening in their court system to know that Sharia Law has had a lot to do with the changes that have taken place.
Concerning your claim that rape is not allowed in Sharia Law, what else do you call it when a man is allowed to have his way with his wife, no matter if she wants to or not? If that isn’t rape, it’s close enough.
You say Sharia Law is widely based on culture and differs from country to country? I would disagree. It is an Islamic law and is based on Islam. Culture or country has nothing to do with it.
I’ve seen you refer many times to Great Britain, and I really must ask to what part of the British court system you are referring to where Sharia has caused the “changes” that have taken place? I have a guess, but I’d rather wait to see what your answer as.
Whether Sharia allows rape or not is not the point that Joe was trying to make. Rather, he was showing that it was a defense used by a defendant in a single case, which was thrown out by the appellate court anyways. Defense attorneys use bogus defenses all the time, including claiming that their client was told to do it by “God”, and that the victim was “asking for it.” They don’t work. And even if they do get past the trial courts, they are subject to multiple levels of appeal that insure that the Constitution and our nation’s (and states’) laws are upheld.
And yes, Sharia does differ from country to country. Professor Jan Michiel Otto, director of the Van Vollenhoven Institute for Law, Governance, and Development, in a paper published by the Amsterdam University Press noted that “[w]hen people refer to the sharia, they are in fact referring to their sharia, in the name of the eternal will of the Almighty God.” He goes on to note that all Muslims believe Sharia is God’s law, but differ as to what exactly it entails. Modernists, traditionalists and fundamentalists all hold different views of Sharia, as do adherents to different schools of Islamic thought and scholarship, and different countries and cultures have varying interpretations of Sharia as well.
Sharia Law is being implemented in Great Britain. Just do a Google search for Sharia Law Great Britain and you will see what I mean. There are official Sharia Law courts set up and they are issuing binding decisions that can be enforced by the full power of the judicial system. There ae many officials in Great Britain who are unhappy that these courts are in existence, but they are already set up, implemented, and operational. Maybe that’s okay for them, but I have no desire to see it take place in America. I say it has no place in America, as does no other law that goes against our Constitution.
Joe specifically said that rape was not allowed in Sharia Law, which is incorrect. It doesn’t matter if that is the point he was trying to make, it is still incorrect. I am fully aware this was a single case that was overturned, but it should never have gotten that far. In no way should Sharia Law be considered in America. I say again, it has no place in our country.
Sharia Law is not being adopted by the state, nor by the courts, in Great Britain. Though the articles do not name the court (and are more than a year old), they are most likely referring to the Islamic Sharia Council, a London-based Islamic court which (and this is the important part) HAS NO LEGAL STANDING OR JURISDICTION WITHIN THE UNITED KINGDOM. Sharia is not being heard and ruled on in the national courts, but is instead being adjudicated in CIVIL cases in which both parties acquiesce to the court’s power. Then those finding COULD be given full legal status, BUT ONLY AFTER APPROVAL BY THE NATIONAL COURTS. And, as I said in another post, this is very much like the Jewish courts that exist all over the world, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES.
So let’s take the analog here. Let’s say that an ISC opened up in Oklahoma City. What does that mean for the people of Oklahoma? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Unless you’re Muslim and actually say, “I want this court deciding this case,” it doesn’t mean a damn thing. Further, it would only be able to hear CIVIL cases, not criminal ones. So could a rapists go into the court and say he wants to be heard by the ISC? No, he can’t. And anything that the ISC ruled would still have to be approved by the state or federal courts (and thus, be in accordance with the state and federal constitution) to have any legal standing whatsoever.
But you really want to know the kicker? Even if that’s what you’re ultimately afraid of, SQ 755 does nothing to stop that. It doesn’t stop Islamic Sharia courts from opening up. It doesn’t say that they can’t rule on civil cases brought before them. It says that the state courts can’t use Shaira to decided cases before them. And I’ll let you in on a little secret, no judge is ever going to rule anything legal because Sharia Law said it was legal. He might take it into account when weighing all factors, but that’s what judges do in civil cases. In criminal cases, the judge is going to go by the case law and the penal code — not Sharia.
You stated earlier that you felt that those of us opposed to SQ755 were reading into the measure too much. Take a look in the mirror, my friend, you’re reading too much into something that isn’t there. At least the measure which I believe is unconstitutional actually exists.
J.cole, I keep trying to read through all of your comments here. I can see a few things in comments that I find very disturbing. For 1 you don’t seem to either know what is actually in the Koran, or you just ignorant of what it is.
2 anyone watching the news or even just barely paying attention to suicidal actions of Islam throughout the entire world and ALL of history can see that Islam is NOT even a religion. It is their Law. It is there law to beat their wives, It is their law to murder anyone who is not muslim. It is their law to create the Final Battle of Jihad. Their so called Holy War.
Note this is not me saying this It is in their own Koran. You might want to look a lot more into what you are trying to defend here in your own words. Anyone ignorant of this will most likely become the first victims when they are ALL Called to action. Just because some may think, or even try to say they are a peaceful Religion. Doesn’t mean they are. Oh and by the way. According to their own Koran they are allowed to lie, cheat, steal, and murder all in the name of Mohammed and there so called Allah. as long as it furthers their cause of Jihad. I case you are not sure what that is. To them it will be the bloodiest war known to mankind.
See my link to read more about islam and the muslim world.
J.cole thanks for clarifying my points. @LD Jackson. Trust me when i say that Q755 is politically motivated. I have done my research. Fear mongering works to divide people then conquer. I wanted to bring up one more point. Many Mormon sect leader have been charged with rape and forcing young girls (as young as 12) to marriage. Most of the accused self proclaimed ‘Prophets” used religion as a justification or defense. Did they get away with it? the answer is simply “No”. why?, because in this country we have a penal code of laws that protects us. with that being said, i would not support a law that would single out Mormons and condemn their religion beliefs publically. Why? because it is against our constitution for the government to establish any religion (in this case favor one religion over another).
On a similar topic, Q755 would force the government to interfere in civil affairs. Such as wills. If a Muslim wants to use sharia law to divide his/her fortune after they die. They should be allowed to. just like a Christian is allowed to use teachings of Jesus to give to charity/ family ect…Will cases are always probated through state courts and Sharia law must be considered if the deceased person wishes to use it in will matters.
Again, I m not for Sharia law, Budist law, Christain law, Any law… I m for the constitution. And I will defend anyone’s constitutional rights anywhere anytime.
Please do not use the judge mistake in deciding a single case in new Jersey as a reason to support this measure. I understand that a mistake happened and frankly the judge that made the mistake should be removed from the bench. how is that for a solution?
FYI, As expected, a federal judge issued an RTO to temporary block Q755 from being certified because it was found unconstitutional. more to come….
I fail to see how SQ 755 can be considered unconstitutional. It does not infringe on anyone’s rights, but only seeks to clarify that international and Sharia Law can not be used to decide cases in our courts. Considering some of the portions of that law, why is that a bad thing?
I realize you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this issue, so let me say this. I am not using the case of one stupid judge as my basis for supporting this measure. What I have looked at is how Islam has a habit of creeping in and exerting it’s control over nearly everything it comes in contact with. It has happened with other countries and I have no desire to see it happen in America.
@LD Jackson. I repeat for the third and last time, I’m not for Sharia law in this country. I m against the public condemnation of any religion by the government. This is not a matter of opinion or convenience. Q755 is unconstitutional and has been found unconstitutional (at least temporarily by the federal judge).
The fact that you don’t believe we can see eye to eye in this matter tells me that the state senator that pushed this bill once again succeeded in dividing us based on fear. The difference between me and you is that i will defend the constitution all the time. not just when it is convenient for me. and if you think that Islam “creeping in and exerting it’s control over nearly everything it comes in contact with”, please read the history of christianity. BTW, it is the largest religion in the world today!
I know many Muslims in my community and frankly 100% of them are worried about paying bills and fighting traffic jams just like everyone else. None of them rape their wifes and slautghter their kids like the fear mongers like us to believe.
This is what the USA is about, a melting pot, but politicians like to use the “Us Vs Them”. I have read many forums where people would say to Muslims : “Go back to the middle east”. Muslims are here for the American dream just like Irish, Germans and others. And not all of them come from the middle east. Many of them are born here just like you!
To close out my arguments on this matter i would like to say that I’m also opposed to any law against “Purple People”. I know they do not exist YET. But just in case.
Why? because our constituion protects all people regardless of their color.
I really do not mean to beat a dead horse here, but how does this amendment condemn Islam? I just do not see how that is the case. Yes, it does restrict the use of Sharia Law, but it does not restrict the practicing of Islam by those who believe in that religion.
As for me defending the Constitution only when it is convenient, I beg to differ. Yes, I am a Christian, but that does not keep me from condemning the actions taken by some who call themselves Christians. Do a search on this blog for George Tiller and you will see I did not condone his murder by Scott Roeder, even though he felt he was directed by God to do the deed and even though I despise the practice of abortion. It was wrong, plain and simple, plus it was against the Constitution and the laws of America.
As for you and I agreeing on this, what would you have me do? Agree with you, carte blanche, and come over to your opinion? All I am saying is that I believe I am right and you believe you are right and neither of us is likely to change our minds. Might we not as well leave it at that and live to argue another day? I would hope you would continue to visit Political Realities and read what I write, even if you do disagree. 8)
Let’s set criminal stuff aside for now.
Q755 condemn Islam because a Muslim cannot decide how he/she wants to be disposed of (Buried, Cremated…etc) and when a Muslim’s will is probated in state courts, judges will be forced to throw out anything that has to do with Sharia law against the deceased will. This will not happen to any other religion.
Put yourself in those shoes. do you want some judge to say,” i will not approve for 1/2 of you inheritance to go to charity because that was derived from christen beliefs”
LD Jackson I have enjoyed discussing this with you and hope to debate you in other matters in the future. Have a great day!
Well Joe I was kinda reading through what you wrote here. I have to say. When people try to mix religions a majority of the time you can tell who actually knows Religions and what they believe and you can REALLY tell those who don’t.
So many try to place Christianity as Religion like what the Bible says is some kinda myth or something. lol Pass it off. Like most people don’t try to keep these Morals. You know the simple one. Thou shall not steal, Thou shall not bear false witness. Or lie, or thou shall not Murder. Whether or not people want to believe it or not America still stands on these basics because the Morals are right and everyone knows it.
What people don’t seem to understand here is Sharia Law is the Koran. All of it goes completely against every moral issue we know as right For Islam. It’s ok to murder anyone who is not muslim. in fact they encourage it strongly and several times in the Koran. It’s ok to steal, Lie in fact it just the complete opposite from our basic Moral Laws we already have in place here in America and the opposite of the Bible. The main goal of ALL islam is Jihad. To usher in what they call a Messiah or IMAM. Their whole reason for living lingers very strictly to this Motive. To create and cause the most bloodiest War in history so that their Imam will arrive on the scene to save all Muslims while everyone else is to be put to death. Either by beheading or imprisonment until they conform to islam if not they are to be put to death. Now answer me this. Does this sound like a reasonable Religious Law if that’s what you want to call it. But to them It is Law and there are no others. But, is this something that we should be allowing into our very own Land as Law? right here in America? I don’t think so. Anyone that does try to OK this is not only a complete idiot. But, they totally ignorant and oblivious to what they are trying to bring in as law. People better wake up to this, and do some very serious research on this very subject. It’s not a Joke. It’s got nothing to do with Fear Mongering. lol Though I do find those that try to clam that can’t find anything better to say. lol Wake up it’s time to smell the burnt toast. This is reality. I feel sorry for those that work so hard trying to ignore it.
DanJ, Are you a disguised Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh? Because after reading your post, I feel like buying food insurance, investing in Gold and boarding up my house. The same words in your post were said about my Jewish friends before. Your stands on this is not news, we simply have a new boogey man in the corner.
lol, Answer is no, and no. It never hurts to be prepared and if you have seemed to have missed all this on the News my question is this. Have you not been paying attention to the news lately? Don’t feel bad most people don’t. Most people don’t have the time to pay attention to what is really going on anymore. If you get anytime at all I would suggest keeping up with my link here. ALL of it is from the news. I try to keep it up daily but again it a time thing. Also note. ALL that I posted up here is completely true. It’s not about being scared. It means you Might want to wake up to reality and stand up for your freedom. Those who do nothing will deserve what they get. You’d be amazed on what a little bit of research will do.
DanJ, I respectfully decline your request to subscribe to your fear mongering blog. I also just booked three tickets to take my family on vacation to egypt (see the pyramids) and dubai. please pray for my safe return. I heard that Maslims over there kill people and eat their flesh, it is in the Koran!.
I want moderate muslims, jewish, budists… and all other religions to know that the opinions of DanJ and LdJackson do not represent All Americans. You are welcome to this country as long as you do it legally. You have the same rights and responsabilities as everyone esle. We will stand up for you anytime, anywhere…
This is my final post…Deleting from my favorites
Well, Joe, I’m sorry you feel the need to stay as ignorant to the truth as possible. But, again it is your own decision. If going to Egypt is actually the truth. Pick up a Quran while your there and read it. I can care less if you subscribe. lol I just wanted to let you know that it is in the news since you want to act like it isn’t. lol
I really find it amazing how people are so willing to change the very laws of America and don’t even care what the new laws are going to be.
Sad really. In order to know what those laws are. You have to read the Quran. Because that is Sharia Law. Be sure to note the parts about beating your wives and kill all Jews, Christians and Americans cause the west is of the Devil in according to Sharia Law. Don’t take my word for it. Read it yourself.
You can hide behind a self centered point of view and not read it yourself. But, don’t say you were not warned or even act shocked when they call on Jihad. It’s not a fairy tale. As far as All other religions knowing. They already know it. Not sure where trying to go there. lol
See the more you think I’m the only one saying this? The more you need to actually pick it up and read it yourself.
I didn’t say it. IT”S in the Koran. lol
This is absurd and I’m getting tired of hearing this from people like DanJ and LdJackson.
(1)There is not, nor has there ever been, a serious worry about the laws of American being changed to the laws of Islam.
(2) The Koran does NOT say to kill all Jews, Christians, and Americans because the West is the Devil, it advocates killing those that don’t believe the same as Muslims, the same that the Bible does. Also, the Bible advocates killing gays, individuals who plant crops side by side, those that touch dead pigs, and those that work on the Sabbath.
Human beings used to be able to distinguish between words written thousands of years ago and what should actually be acted upon today. A few took it too far and now an entire religion (the largest on earth) has to suffer because people like Dan and LD seem unable to make that distinguish as well. It’s sad, really. Fear is a terrible thing — it makes people crazy and drives them to absurd lengths and even worse conclusions. It’s sad that some people just can’t see that.
Actually, the Bible does not advocate killing those who do not believe. It is true that the Old Testament Jews did kill a lot of people who were not Jewish, but the coming of Jesus did away with all of that. The New Testament also did away with the killing of gays and the other groups you mentioned. It does condemn homosexuality, but it does not advocate their murder. He preached and brought about a much different gospel than did the Old Testament.
LD Jackson is right, Murder in any case of the Bible is condemned. and should not be taken place whatsoever according to the Bible and God’s law.
As far as the Quran goes J Cole. You may want to actually read it before you make comments like that. Don’t want to make yourself looks so foolish not know what your saying. Again I didn’t say it. It’s in the Koran read it.
And again Here is the Quran, Read it yourself.
http://quran.com/9
This is just one of the chapters do you want me to show you mare?
DanJ, you keep sucking me into this argument. I have read the Quran before and i find that its meaning is based on individual interpretations.
Similarely, in many chapters of the Bible for instance, God commands to israelites to kill the people of canaan and very horrible metaphors of God’s anger. In the Quran it says that muslims fought against others and there is a tax a christian and jew should be paid in order to leave in the islamic nation.
Moral of the story is that all religions have had their bloody histories. So, let’s not say that one is better then the other. you have yours, i have mine and the other person has his own. Why can’t you accept that and move on?
Ahh I see, you only believe it says what you want it to say. After all this is what interpretation is. You said it wasn’t in the Quran, I’m showing you that its in this chapter.
http://quran.com/9 Let it speak for itself.
Try to push an issue of the Bible? lol you might want to read the whole thing again before you really look foolish on that matter. Oops. I’m already to late for that. lol
How funny.
Again read it. It says what it says. I didn’t interpret it. I gave it to you read for yourself. Geez.
DanJ, you have convinced me to Hate all other religions. are you happy now?
Keep up the good work.
lol you hated them loooong before you read my posts Joe, Get real won’t you? lol
Just deleted all my muslim friends phone numbers from my phone. Thank you very much DanJ. you opened my eyes to they were up to. is there any other religous gourp or skin color i need to avoid. please advise, i m very scared for my safety and that of my family.
I think this back and forth has gone on long enough. It’s obvious that nothing is being accomplished, so I am now closing the comments on this post.
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