Dr. George Tiller, Scott Roeder, and domestic terrorism
It was May 31, 2009 when Dr. George Tiller was gunned down in his church in Wichita, Kansas, as he was serving as an usher. Scott Roeder had decided that it was time to end the life of one of the few doctors who was willing to perform late-term abortions. As I am pro-life, I am against abortion, but that also makes me against murder. I think one could justify killing someone if they felt their family or their own life was in peril, but there is no way the murder of Dr. Tiller was justified, simply no way.
When the trial of Scott Roeder began on January 11, 2010 it was a fairly cut and dried case. After the guilty verdict was handed down, Roeder’s own defense attorney said it was impossible to defend the man, as he had admitted the killing and expressed no remorse for doing so. After the murder, I expressed the view that Roeder should be punished for the crime he had committed and that view still holds. The verdict, I believe, is just.
I had not intended to write anything else on the Roeder case, but I received an email from another blogger this morning, alerting me to something that I was not aware of. As far as I was concerned, this was a case of murder in the first degree. It was clearly premeditated and there was no way around that. Little did I know that our government had classified the Tiller murder as an act of domestic terrorism. You can read the report at the National Counterterrorism Center’s website. In an attempt to understand if this classification is correct, let’s look at the legal definition of terrorism, taken from the United States Law Code.
The term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.
To understand if this murder should be classified as domestic terrorism, I think one has to examine Roeder’s motive. He was clearly against abortion, adamantly so, and that seems to have been the driving force behind his decision to murder Dr. Tiller. From The New York Times, this is what he said during his trial testimony.
“I did what I thought was needed to be done to protect the children. I shot him,” he testified, adding at another point, “If I didn’t do it, the babies were going to die the next day.”
If we are to believe Scott Roeder, and we have no reason not to, his lone motive was to protect the unborn children, the babies
that would die as the result of Dr. Tiller’s actions. He made that very plain during his testimony and even before. He appears to have been morally, at least according to his thinking, rather than politically motivated. That is not to take away from the severity of his crime, nor does it make it morally right, but it does seem to preclude the murder being classified as domestic terrorism.
What do you think? Should the murder of Dr. George Tiller be classified as domestic terrorism or was it a case of someone taking what they thought should be the law into their own hands? Either way, it’s sad that it had to happen.
One could argue that abortion is a political issue, therefor this was a political killing. I know that people on the left classify this as terrorism, it has been mentioned on my blog that if I call Hasan and the Christmas day bomber terrorists, I should also call Roeder a terrorist. And pro-life activists were on Janet Napolitano’s list of possible domestic terrorist, but I just don’t see this being the same thing. I see this as murder.
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Yes, a lot of people look at abortion as a political issue, but I think it is really a moral issue that has been transformed into a political issue. I am with you, in that I think it does not warrant the domestic terrorism classification.
I agree, abortion should be a moral issue, but it has become a political issue over the years. Politicians on both sides have to pass this “litmus test” in order to be accepted by their parties. But really every person has to decide for themselves whether abortion is right or wrong. I find it reprehensible, just as reprehensible as I find this murder.
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The definition of terrorism to me is odd. Anyway, I don’t think this is an act of terrorism because is wasn’t against America or her what she stands for as a whole.
It was murder. One person shooting one other person. This didn’t broaden out to others.
It is amazing to me how it is getting harder and harder to distinguish what is what under the guise of political correctness.
Question, does the fact that this is viewed as a terrorist type crime change the punishment he will get?
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I guess if America stands for murder, then i see the logic of your argument Dominique. Because it sounds as if you condone murder in certain circumstances.
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David – Forgive me, but I totally do not see how you got “I condone murder” in anything I wrote. I said it was murder. What I don’t know is how it is terrorism? The act was not against America as a whole but one person who the killer had an issue with. I am not, in any form or fashion, condoning the killing. I’m just saying I don’t think his act was one of terrorism.
I am 100% against murder, including the type called abortion.
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Dominique,
(-i hope you are doing well!)
13 February, 1945, the city of Dresden, Germany overflowing with refugees streaming in from points east in advance of the Red Army was attacked by 1300 heavy U.S. AAF and British RAF bombers. They dropped high explosive (to make kindling out of buildings) and napalm (to start a fire storm) bombs and they were successful. A huge firestorm ensued. Estimates of the death toll were in excess of 100,000 men, women, AND children. This was murder and a war crime if ever there was one. My mom was a 14 year old member of the Hitler Jügen, task to help the evacuees, such as they were. She told me of the young mother who held her child close to her, and seeing it, mom realized it was only a cinder. I am sure the effects of that event on my mom at such a young age scared her for life, for she was one cold, bitter woman, and still is.
Today, i read of another U.S. drone attack that kills Hakimullah Mehsud. -Good riddance! We use these drones effectively to kill these guys and yes we kill children at times. I personally have caused the deaths of numbers of non combatants in the name of American freedom.
Abortion is wrong. Murder is wrong. Air strikes that kill civilians are wrong. Many Americans seem blind to the fact of killings in the name of “Freedom”, yet make great theater of their opposition to abortion. I oppose abortion too.
Let’s advocate against ALL unjust killings, please.
David W. Walters´s last blog ..War sucks
David – I’m on day 9 of a bad relapse but thank you for asking.
We will have to agree to disagree. As an AF Vet, I understand that sometimes war is necessary and sometimes killing is necessary. I do not included those incidences in the ‘murder’ category.
I do understand and respect that Freedom comes at great cost. I never take that lightly.
So…I cannot and will not advocate against our military protecting America. Won’t happen, buddy. Sorry!
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I think that this might be politically motivated. Ever since this administration took over, there has been an obvious effort to de-emphasize the Islamic terrorists (remember Ft. Hood). At the same time, there has been an equivalent effort to classify anyone who disagrees with the current administration, via the MIAC and DHS reports, as terrorists.
Roeder deserves what he gets. It was premeditated murder, and he stated as much. He is a criminal. Moral objections to the law does not entitle one to take the law into his or her own hands. Ironically, however, he is classified a a terrorist (NO man-made disasters???), and KSM and the crotch bomber are just petty criminals. This is a pretty transparent piece of propaganda.
Matt – That is a great point. The irony here between the crotch bomber and KSM and Roeder has not been lost on my either.
BTW, I love your comments. I have no problem following you line of thought. You lay out your position nice and clean. Thanks for joining in on the conversation. It is nice having you here.
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Thanks for the kind words, Dominique. It’s much appreciated.
Fantastic take on the issue. It is so rare to stumble across a blog and not only agree with the post but with all the comments
Yeah, the fact that life seems to have no meaning to this administration is quite worrisome. I am bothered by the Obama ability to only focus on one issue a year, and even more bothered by his lack of moral guidance.
Great blog, leave me a note and I will link ya
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I agree with you LD the taking of life is murder. That said I recall the story of Sgt. Alvin York, a simple man from the mountains of TN, of WWI fame. He was against killing before he went to the front lines in France, but after the battle where he single handed killed numerous german soldiers he was asked why he had changed his mind about killing and his reply was simple and to the point, “I killed them to stop them from killing our guys”. Yes that was war, but I suspect Scott Roeder thought the same thing. Legally he was wrong, but I don’t know how God will judge him.
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Terrorist … This is why I’ve never supported things like the mis-named Patriot Act.
Roeder’s a murderer. Nothing more. Nothing less. God help us all!
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If a murderer acting on political motivations, decides to kill CIA employees at the gate of CIA Headquarters as Aimal Kasi did on January 25, 1993, we would all call it terrorism. What if Kasi’s nephew decides to do the same thing because CIA drones have killed Muslim children would he not be classified as a terrorist?
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We could play the what if game all day long. The guy is a murderer. That said, I don’t see it as a political issue, but a moral one.
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>>So…I cannot and will not advocate against our military protecting America. Won’t happen, buddy. Sorry!<<
(….-Dominique in response to American war crimes.)
Young lady, in NO way was America protected by bombing Dresden. It was just a test of the effects of napalm on a city full of people. By the same standards we convicted Nazi war criminals, our war leaders committed murder in our name. Yet you equate abortion correctly as murder. It is quite confusing to say murder is wrong in one case yet we can attempt to cover our murderous ways by saying it is just war. This was Bin Laden's excuse for the World Trade Center crime…."A Act of War!"
American can be well protected without killing women and children. It is a poor excuse to say "I do understand and respect that Freedom comes at great cost. I never take that lightly."
-and think that somehow exonerates America for the evil we perpetuate, which falls FAR beyond the pale of abortion.
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You are most proficient at changing the subject.
David – Sometimes you just make my head hurt because I just can’t keep up with you!
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How many of you, calling Scott Roeder a murderer ever said a peep about the 60,000 babies Tiller aborted (by his own estimate)? I think there are similarities between what the Valkyrie assassins failed to do and what Scott Roeder did. Because they reasoned Hitler was killing 16,000 people a day they felt compelled to act. They failed and were executed. Hitler committed suicide in his bunker only 9 months later. Tiller’s reign of terror continued for decades because the people of Kansas failed to elect responsible leaders (not to mention national leaders) who would reign in on this late-term abortionist and call abortion for what it is, the murder of an unborn child. Someone asked what God thinks. There is a story in the Bible about a man named Phinehas in Numbers 25. It says: Numbers 25:10-11 “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy”. In some measure, I can’t help but wonder if Scott Roeder has turned away the wrath of God on America by what he did.
Wayne,
Thanks for taking the time to comment on Political Realities. I share the sentiment that abortion is murder of an unborn child. Having said that, I do not believe God condones what Scott Roeder did in murdering Dr. George Tiller. Two wrongs do not make a right and Roeder certainly did a wrong thing when he shot and killed Tiller. I must disagree with you on those terms.
Then you are putting abortion in a lesser category of murder, say 2nd class. Would you stand idly by while someone murdered a girl on her way home from school – would you use lethal force if necessary? Do you think the German officers in Valkyrie were justified in attempting to kill Hitler or were they committing murder? It is precisely this devaluing of infants that is the reason we’ve had the abortion holocaust for almost 40 years. The long overdue “Personhood” movement is trying to rectify this madness! Women have been duped into thinking the child in the womb is just tissue, that the fetus can be thought of in virtually the same manner as a tumor.
I actually went to Tiller’s Wichita “clinic” a few years ago. With a handful of other protesters, standing at the gates of hell, we dissuaded a number of young couples to not kill their baby. The Lord gave me some things to say to some of the women who worked at the clinic as they left to go to their cars at the end of the day. When Tiller came out I had nothing for him, it’s like he heard it all before. All that being said I don’t think I could do what Roeder did, but I don’t think I can condemn him either. You can take out a Tiller and a few babies will live, but ultimately it’s not the solution to a godless nation, that has no fear of God.
Wayne,
I do no such thing. Abortion is murder, plain and simple. That does not give anyone the right to plan and commit the murder of a doctor who performs those abortions.
If I happened to see someone about to be murdered, I would do what I could do to stop it. Would I be willing to use lethal force if necessary? I have no way of knowing that, because I have never faced such a situation. With all due respect, that is a completely different situation than the Roeder/Tiller drama.
I do not believe Scott Roeder should have murdered Dr. George Tiller, but that does not mean that I am devaluing an infant child. It just means that the end result of the end of Tiller performing abortions does not justify his murder.