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If I Hate America So Much, Why Do I Stay?

Since I started blogging and founded Political Realities, I have always tried to listen to points of view that were different from my own. I have had coauthors who were much more liberal than myself and I have allowed many commenters who were more than a little stirred up that I had the audacity to question their liberal leaders. This is especially true since Barack Obama was elected President. He does not like to be questioned and many of his supporters are cut from the same cloth. Because of their attitude and their willingness to attack anyone who dares to point out the truth about their agenda, I have had an attitude change of my own.

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I no longer suffer these fools gladly. I have no problem engaging them in a discussion of the issues, but when they start hurling personal insults, trying to seize the moral high ground and shut down the conservative side of the conversation, I refuse to allow it to happen. Having said that, let me get to the topic of today’s post. I have been involved in a discussion at Mike’s America that has taken a turn I did not expect. You can read the post and the comments at the link. The commenter I engaged is banned at Political Realities and shall remain so. Nothing he/she says is of any benefit to the discussions we try to have on this blog.

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I’ll be the first to admit, I may be guilty of starting this fight. As I said earlier, I am no longer able to suffer these fools gladly. Here is what the commenter had to say in their first comment.

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“The only real “fix” short or long term is the repeal of ObamaCare.”

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Please proceed Governor.

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Go right ahead. Follow the constitutionally proscribed procedures and pass a law for a better plan for health care and health care coverage. (Medicare for all might be a good start.)

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Looking forward to your coming up with a better plan for the people of USA. Do you envision the GOP will be able to come-up with something before the year 2100?

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While you are at it, the people of USA will take advantage of the current ACA law. When you have a better law in place, USA will talk about the repeal of ACA.

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Ema Nymton

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This is how I responded.

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I see we have our usual liberal troll regurgitating her normal liberal garbage. What she fails to realize that Obamacare was designed to break a system that was already working. Liberals wanted to destroy our health care system so they could usher in a single payer system of their own design. The only snag they have ran into is that Obamacare was doing its job too quickly. Americans are now realizing just how bad it really is and even more than was previously so, they want nothing to do with it.

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To start with, Obama’s declaration does not follow the method set forth in the Constitution that allows for changes to be made to any particular legislation. Just because he decides he wants to change something does not give him the authority to make a speech and make it so.

Here’s where it gets interesting and the conversation takes the direction I did not expect. It rapidly went from discussing Obamacare to what constitutes a modern civil society and our duty to pay higher taxes to provide for those who are less fortunate. I took exception to the description this person was using for a modern civil society and this is how they responded.

“A modern civil society?”

FYI – when I pay my taxes, I complain bitterly; much like everyone else. But I pay my taxes willingly because taxes are a part of life. Taxes are part of a modern civil society system which allows the people to enjoy a quality of life worth living.

You see, I love the idea of USA. Even with all its faults and problems, it remains a darn good place to live.

If USA is as bad as you always seem to whine, snivel, snipe, and complain about, why are you staying?

Ema Nymton

I was honestly taken aback by the comment. In retrospect, I should not have been, but I did not consider my questioning of Obamacare or paying higher taxes to be complaining or whining. And I certainly do not hate America. I simply refuse to let these people have the last word in a discussion when they are so clearly wrong about how America is supposed to work. As we were told while George W. Bush was President, questioning a particular administration is not unpatriotic. We have a right to do so and it does not constitute a hate of America when we do.

When you boil this discussion down to its bare essentials, it’s actually pretty simple. It is standard operating procedure for liberals to change the conversation. This commenter started off by talking up Obamacare, but when they were questioned about that, shifted to taxes and the responsibilities of a modern civil society. When I had the nerve to question them on that premise, I was accused of hating America and they suggested I leave. Not going to happen, folks.

Liberals would like to shut this conversation down. They would prefer we accept their version of freedom and reality and allow them to proceed with their agenda for America. We shall see if they are able to accomplish their goals, but if they do, it will not be because I was silent. I love America and I refuse to sit idly by and watch her be destroyed by the likes of Barack Obama and his liberal cohorts.

About LD Jackson

LD Jackson has written 2053 posts in this blog.

Founder and author of the political and news commentary blog Political Realities. I have always loved to write, but never have I felt my writing was more important than in this present day. If I have changed one mind or impressed one American about the direction our country is headed, then I will consider my endeavors a success. I take the tag line on this blog very seriously. Above all else, in search of the truth.

  • Mattens

    I suspect that, like most America haters, you haven’t the talent or resources to go anywhere else. Your work here certainly suggests you give up any idea of becoming a professional writer. Sorry.
    1. The GOP has no plan to reform the health system. And they never have had one beyond–oh-my-gosh–tort reform.
    2. What the more educated among the right fear most is not that Obamacare will fail, but that it will succeed. Medicare met the same reception from the right. If they weren’t worried about it, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of them; they would allow it to fail. 😉
    3. Liberals shut the conversation down? LOL! You can listen to that fat windbag Limbaugh every day, and crazy fellow America haters like Beck and Hannity, too.
    “America, love it or leave it” goes for you Teabaggers, too. LOL

    • To start with, I am not an America hater. I love our country and am proud to have been born and raised here.

      And for the record, I seldom listen to Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Glen Beck.

    • “1. The GOP has no plan to reform the health system. And they never have had one beyond–oh-my-gosh–tort reform.”

      That’s nothing more than deliberate and willful ignorance. People who flout their ignorance in such a brazen manner do not deserve further consideration. It’s simply a waste of time.

      • EstablishmentByProxy

        Actually, the GOP doesn’t have a plan.

        We have to use the liberal decoder ring on their new speak. What that means is that the GOP isn’t satisfactorily leftist in its proposals. They failed utterly to provide a sufficiently socialist, ever expanding Goliath which could be leveraged for endless state corruption and subjugation of the proletariat.

        Well good for the GOP then…maybe there is hope after all since I tend to favor this ever more estranged concept known as freedom/liberty. Moreover, I think the GOP has been too much on the side of government as being any kind of positive influence.

        No government control (or just less than desired) = no plan. New speak at its finest.

  • This fully illustrates why I have never had co-authors and don’t go to many *other* pages… I have about as much tolerance for Libtards as I do turds in punchbowls..

  • Dbjack 46

    I love a reasoned and informed debate between persons that respect the integrity and legitimacy of another’s point of view. Alas, such discussions, IMO, have been rarer than warm and sunny early Spring mornings or Fall evenings.
    Years ago (in my 40s) I came to the realization that there seemed to be two sides to an argument. One side utilized facts, historical record and consequences while opposing views depended on emotional, heartbreaking anecdotes of people who acted irresponsibly or events beyond human control and proceeded to attack their opponent as uncaring and morally irrelevant.
    Political correctness and control freaks?

    • Things have only gotten worse since the time you realized how the liberals conducted any debate they decided to participate in. Political correctness and control freaks describes them nicely.

  • snafubar

    Hey LD, why is my comment “awaiting moderation” ? Nothing offensive there.

    • snafubar

      OK, no more comments here. Why waste my time.

      • It was held in moderation because of the link. I just now had time to approve it because I am at work. Sorry for the delay.

        • snafubar

          Gotcha. I’ll forget the link next time.

          • No need to forget the link. If you have something to share, I don’t mind. I’ll just have to approve it.

  • Charles_F

    There is a provision in the ACA that allows states to opt out. In order to do so, they must manage to provide medical coverage for as many (or more) people as the ACA does. Vermont has been considering a state single-payer system, for example.

    The reason that you don’t hear about a “red” state using this option is that there is no viable conservative/Republican plan.

    • hardteachings

      i’m tired of listening to the ‘no alternative plan’ arguments from the un-washed who have no understanding of tenth amendment history, adverse selection (as it relates to actuarial
      science), or even the combination of an open mind and basic math).
      the noble largesse the progs demand from conservatives requires ‘real money’ generated through free enterprise. unfortunately, due to the efforts of said progs, only half as many americans contribute in a meaningful way to that revenue as did at the turn of the 20th century.

      the progressive experiment has not turned out so well as we now have to print 1.2 trillion a year in ‘faux’ dollars just to keep up a semblance of financial stability in this country.
      if not for the superiority of our military and the proliferance of ‘american’ uber corporations that the rest of the world depends on for stability we would be in the same boat as greece. italy, the u.k. and france.

      the next time you or a loved one need medical care you might (according to your rhetoric) travel to anyone of the countries the u.n. report listed above the united states in healthcare.

      bueno suerte con este mi amigo…b

      • Charles_F

        1. You didn’t really respond to my point.

        2. I’ve had medical care in about a half dozen countries. Britains NHS was efficient, fast, and cheap. Similar experiences in Canada, China and Belarus. In Germany, they couldn’t find the paperwork to charge me, so they just let me have the care free (sprained ankle). This “travel to other countries” gambit seems to come from people who have never been out of the United States and assume that others haven’t either.

        • hardteachings

          so i did address your ‘point’ with an over-arching truism to wit: this country, whether at the federal or state level, simply can not subsidize the increased costs of adverse selection and indigent enrollment with ‘real’ dollars. i would hope that by now it would be obvious that the aca is not a self-sustaining enterprise, much less a deficit reducer.

          with regard to your challenge to the red-states; i’d offer the example of the blue-state poster boy, massachusetts. the ‘deal’ that mr. romney cut with the feds in 2006 allowed for a 77% funding of medicare vis~a~vis American tax dollars that was then manipulated to offset the cost of providing insurance for all. what remained of the deficit was funded by increased premiums, deductibles, and out-of-pocket expenses, plus a non-compliance penalty of $1600 per resident. this has not worked out over the long haul as you can see for yourself here:

          getting back to the broader ‘point’ of my reply i’d re-iterate that the eurozone is ‘going broke’ under the dual economic pressure of funding universal healthcare and egregious retirement benefits; which reminds me of your personal assessment of my character.

          i did not suppose that you haven’t traveled abroad; although you assumed that of me. it does seem, by your admission, that you tend to require a bit of medical assistance when you travel. i hope the ‘sprained ankle’ was not a burden on ms. merkel’s noblesse oblige; and by the way, the credit rating of belarus was recently downgraded to -b.

          just say’n …b

  • My tolerance level is at an all time low.

  • I believe you have fairly well summed it up, so I haven’t a lot to add. But like you, I think I’ll stick around and watch the aftermath of the train wreck that is Obamacare and Barack Obama.

  • Mustang

    I often wonder about the disconnect on the left between what is real, and what is fantasy. Worse
    than merely “disconnected,” these people (the communists) appear to have merged the two. It is, as has been mentioned before, a serious mental disease. As a case in point, Medicare is $80 billion in the red … and their solution is to replace the world’s finest health care system with a single-payer system. Excuse me for my bluntness, but the argument is nuts.

    Another fallacy is that anyone pays his or her taxes willingly. They pay their taxes because if they don’t, the entire weight of government comes crashing down upon their heads. Government, for their part, uses this coercion to their best advantage. The question is, who ever created this republic based on “coercion of the people?” Note: commenter may also be one of those Americans who pay no taxes whatever … which doesn’t seem exactly fair to me.

    Ema Nymton is “Not my name.” She is either not from this galaxy, or proof positive that there should be some medical check before people are allowed to procreate.

    • Your description of the fallacy about taxes is a great way of realizing just how far America has traveled down the road of liberalism. Coercion of the people was not what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution and fought a war for their independence.

  • This has happened to me as well Larry. It really bothers the hell out of me when people say that I should leave the country if I do not like it simply because I oppose what the government is doing. We can oppose the president and still love the country, but these people do not seem to understand that. I do not like it when people on the right say this to people on the left either, there is nothing wrong with having different points of view and in fact the fact that we are allowed to have different points of view is part of what makes America great.

    • I agree, Steve. There is no need for anyone, from the left or the right, to suggest someone leave America, just because they have a different point of view. As a country and as Americans, we should be better than that.

  • EstablishmentByProxy

    Expatriation; that’s a serious thought for more and more daily. Then there is the follow on thought that if the productive do leave and manage to establish a more liberated and prosperous locality, these same folks that were so relieve of our departure would quickly follow to that new land of milk and honey to quickly being boring out its core of prosperity as well. It’s what they do.

    Have they not figured out that they are the cancer cells and to expel the healthy ones leaves only a hollow and putrid shell in its wake? How will they help themselves to the fruit of others labor if all the productive ones were to actually follow their advice?

    The Marxist/feminist/Keynesian/PC house of cards is leaning further every day. Political and social myopia is a hallmark of these precarious tower builders. Don’t be surprised then they blame their system’s utter failure upon those that had the gall to warn them every step of the way.

  • hardteachings

    I find it fascinating that the progs, who have labored for a century to bring this once great nation to it’s knees, now adopt a kind of pseudo-patriotic stance and pretend to school conservatives. what they perceive as an ‘evolution’ of the constitution and ‘moral’ ideology is nothing more than the opportunistic de-construction of the greatest nation on earth vis~a~vis the constant clarion call to the un-washed to succumb to their basest desires.

    the irony here is that the challenge offered mr. jackson; to “love America or leave it” was originally posed to liberal hollywood elitists back in the thirties by walter winchell, a controversial radio show host. the exact quote reads:
    “America would be a better place to live in if all the people who didn’t like it would leave it to the rest of us – who love it!”
    real americans picked up on his sentiment and over the next thirty years it boiled down to the conservative retort to the ‘nam protesters in the sixties. again, the irony.

    now we may well end up entirely beholden to the whims of the world; just another collection of poor souls at the beck and call of whatever powers that be. I just wish the present short-sighted protagonists of that denouement wouldn’t wrap themselves in the flag of our fathers…b

    • And when they start trying to school conservatives in the error of their ways, I find it hard to watch. Their arguments may be weak, but they have had some success.

  • Left wing tolls like Ema and your own “Mattens” serve only one useful purpose and that is to constantly expose the absolute intellectual vacuity of those on the left. All they are capable of is repeating whatever left wing tripe they are told to say at some George Soros funded web site. They are not only incapable of independent thought, they would be punished by their socialist/marxist masters for doing so.

    I like to keep a few lefty trolls around as they also tend to make me look brilliant by comparison.

    • True enough, but keeping them around gets tiresome after a while.

  • Acethepug

    When your case is strong in the law, pound the law.
    When your case is strong in the facts, pound the facts.
    When your case is strong in neither, pound the table.
    This is what the poster in question is doing — indeed, it is what the Left has been doing at least since GW Bush’s time in office.
    Anyone who disagrees with Obama is racist — just ask Oprah Winfrey, the richest black woman in the world — who made her money here in America — which is racist … and … yeah, the racism thing doesn’t hold water. It’s not meant to be intelligent. It’s meant to make people defend themselves and stop arguing.

    What else does the Left have? Notice your problem poster at Mike’s never actually addresses anything? Never answers questions or clarifies anything?

    That’s intentional, and by design. The Left cannot defend itself. It cannot even make intellectually consistent arguments All it can do is scream, accuse, and lie — the President is a perfect example of this.

    He lies, blatantly and often, about how the ACA will work. Then, he insists he didn’t lie, despite the fact that he so clearly did. It’s as laughable as the “I didn’t set a red line, the WORLD set a red line.”
    The question should not be, if *you* hate America so much, why do you stay — it should be more “If the Left hates America so much, why not leave for one of the socialist paradises they bleat about?”
    Because they wouldn’t be the elite, there. They would be the downtrodden.
    At the end of the day, the Left really isn’t going to like this new world they are creating.

  • The progressives are starting to flail. A good sign. Maybe the senators won’t be as willing to give up their seats as the House Dems were.

  • JohnBascom

    Liberals seem to believe that government in America should be one gigantic United Fund,
    a charity designed to help people in need but without voluntary contributions. Instead it should be funded by forced contributions–taxes. Of course, the Constitution and a hundred years of
    precedent make it clear that is not what our government was created to do. America has always been one of the most compassionate and generous countries in the world, but through the kindness of people, not government enforcement. The idea promoted by liberals during the ObamaCare debate that legions of uninsured sick people are left to die on the streets is beyond preposterous. Having spent eleven years involved in health care governance, that notion is simply nonsense. But try telling it to a liberal.

    You can’t change a dyed-in-the-wool liberal’s worldview with reason or anything else. They simply BELIEVE that way, the way some people believe alien creatures abduct humans. Right now liberals feel a bit empowered because they have the White House and Senate, and were successful early on with liberal legislation such as ObamaCare. But if you listened to MS-NBC, Van Johnson and others before all that, they were the ones castigating America as a horrible society. The thought occurred to me more than once that THEY are the ones who should leave if we are all so hateful. The political pendulum will in time swing once more to the right, and we will hear liberals once more bleating about what a terrible place America is.

    Political Realities and other voices of reason are valuable to stiffen the backbones of conservatives and introduce middle of the road independents to conservative values. Keep on opining, Larry; you’re doing a great job. But forget about turning liberals—it just can’t be done!

    • I am beginning to understand just how difficult it really is. I enjoy a good debate and discussion, but the recent dealings I have had with some liberals, even from within my own family, have jaded me. Their positions are ridiculous and untenable, yet they act as if conservatives are the second coming of Satan himself. Their attitude wearies me.

  • SirPublius

    Well said. I truly enjoy debate, and I enjoy writing. THAT is what democracy and freedom is all about, namely a discourse, civil discourse, without fear of repercussion. Many of the people on the left call themselves “liberals”, but in truth, at least as far as classical liberalism is concerned, they are nothing of the sort. Today, conservatives are the true liberals, and liberals are just collectivists, statists, there is more than one term to describe them by, but they are not truly liberal. They are not individualists. They don’t enjoy a hardy debate. With their political correctness, their desire is to shut down political discourse. And yes, when you engage them in debate, invariably they change the subject to something other than what you are saying, because their whole ideology is based on emotionalism, on wishful optimistic thinking, and in using any means to justify their ends because of their unwavering belief in their untested ideals. Their default goes to some talking point when confronted about an issue. Their thought is not fluid. Their critical thinking ability nonexistent. They don’t base what they think on experience. They don’t base it on pragmatism, reason and logic. That may sound like hyperbole, but it is the truth for the hardcore left, who are leading the way for today’s Democratic party. They find comfort in living in the alternate universes they live in. They have to live there, because the alternative is to live in the real world….what a bummer that would be.

    • I have recently discovered just how true your statement really is. Debate is not possible with a true liberal. They will always change the subject to something that isn’t even related to the topic at hand.

  • Driftforge

    A simple viewpoint on this; people gain from others in only three ways. Those ways are theft, exchange, and gift. Socialism is the enacting of regulated theft as a form of government; capitalism is the enacting of regulated trade. To a large extent, gift resists being transformed into a form of government by its very nature; once forced by legislation, gift becomes theft. The closest we seem to have gotten is encapsulating it within culture.

    While some may wish for a purely trade based society, it turns out that this is impractical and contrary to our nature as humans. Theft by means systemic or crude will rise up against the natural inequalities that exist between us, in heritage, capacity and fortune. There are only two defences against theft; force and.. gift.

    It’s why Christianity is inseparably central to Western society; it calls for self sacrifice on a level that mitigates the use of force, both in the conduct of theft and in its suppression.

    As to the notion of going elsewhere – utopia’s are an elusive hunt. But there is much to be gained from the possession of a second passport; from having nation’s compete for your effort, rather than you having to compete for their attention.

    Unfortunately given the nature of citizenship in the US, getting the benefits from a second passport often means collecting two additional ones so that you can renounce the US one…

    That said, there is a joy in seeing the potential in the place you are and striving to see the best come of it. Strength to your hand.

    • Well said, Drift. Glad to see you joining the discussion.

  • Mike

    Ema’s comments are certainly out of line and I have no problem with your response Larry. But I stopped writing on this blog, and only rarely comment, for the very same reasons many commenters ascribe only to liberals — I didn’t feel my opinions were welcome and the attacks became personal rather than intellectual. I don’t see you throwing those people off your blog because you largely agree with their political position. Fair enough — it’s your blog. My problem, and I’ve expressed it before, is that I find the vast majority of conservatives label anyone who doesn’t tow the conservative party line as the enemy. I recently observed the shunning of Paul Ryan as a case in point. I think over the years you’ve moved decidedly toward that camp, as you seemed to freely admit in comments above. I absolutely agree that hard line liberals take that exact “with us or against us” approach but you both miss the enormous, and election swinging, center. That’s my turf and as long as both sides continue that approach the center will grow and the wings will become more marginalized. At least I hope so.

    • If I have moved more towards the right, and I’m not denying that I have, it is more in response to the liberals than anything else. Conservatives are consistently informed of how we need to moderate our positions on any particular issue. All the while, liberals refuse to budge, even a little. The so-called “compromises” they have brokered on spending and taxes are not real compromises. So much so, that it is almost laughable. I’m tired of having to give and give, while receiving nothing in return. Thus, my stances have hardened considerably.